Less Thank Jake on Creative Freedom and Twitter

Posted on 22 December 2009 by zach

So this is the second half of my interview with Less Than Jake. I stopped the first half on the subject of the relationship with a band and their label and picked back up asking JR how the label business has influenced them… (You can read Part 1 here)

Less Than JakeZ: Your drummer, Vinnie, helped support the label Fueled by Ramen which was originally based out of Gainesville, but has been relocated to New York. Do you think Vinnie’s involvement with Fueled by Ramen has influenced the way you guys understand the relationship between a label and their bands?

JR: Yeah, you learn as you go. You can go to school and take classes and whatnot, but theoretically versus realistically are two totally different things. In theory, this is what the contract is suppose to read and what you’re suppose to get to, but in reality you don’t always get there…cause, I mean…there’s a lot of intangibles that you just don’t know about.

So with Vinnie having experience with starting a label…it’s just like…starting from the ground up…starting a label is just like starting a band – you gotta tell people about it. And hey, if you get lucky and sign that one band…say Fall Out Boy… you’ll get off the ground pretty quickly.

Z: Since this interview will be featured on industry’s site for musicians, managers, and indie labels to gather insight, I think this is a smooth transition into the music market. Since you’ve joined the band LTJ has primarily worked with Sire, a major label, and Sleep It Off, a minor label, how would you describe your experience about working with minor labels like Sleep It Off compared to working with major labels like Sire?

JR: I mean they’re all the same and they’re all different whether you work with a major or you work with an indie. There’s an infrastructure and you have to follow certain protocol to get certain things done. It doesn’t matter if you do it yourself or through an actual label. And a lot of times the artists think it doesn’t land squarely on [their] shoulders, but you can sit around all day but really it’s your band.

Z: Yeah, they just help stitch the bigger picture, or quilt to complete the metaphor [hah.]

JR: For sure. They’re facilitators, you should be able to come with an idea and they should be able to help you get you to that next step… maybe…or at least that’s what you hope for. But like I said this is Vegas…being in a band is Vegas, it’s gambling…it’s crapshoot. And everybody’s like, “Well how did that band…” and I can’t tell you…maybe the alignment of the stars [hah].

This is for people who are aspiring to be better off musically. Sure, you’re working with managers so sure you’ll get frustrated, but no one has doing anything wrong. You do the best that you can… People just don’t like the same things you might like. Music is subjective…it’s like art.

Z: Did you feel you had a different amount of creative control on one label over another label?

JR: Of course, on a major level, they’re cutting the checks so they can tell you ‘Yay’ or ‘Nay.’ And they will tell you what they think and that can definitely put you up in a corner…and they could say ‘We are not going to do this unless you do this’…in which they could just say ‘Screw off’ if they don’t want you anymore. I know some close friends who are in bands that that has happened to – and it is currently happening to. Their stuff is just shelved. The label can do that because they’re the ones with the power…the power is your music. That’s all the artist has is their art.

And like I said, the label can’t survive without the artist. And I’m willing to bet there is thousands of bands out there that look and sound like you so it would be easy to replace you – there are just some bands that are expendable.

Z: So you think bands are willing to compromise what they want in a record…

JR: Of course! For success, for fame, live the dream or frickin…whatever…hold on to your beliefs…but beliefs don’t sell records. [This came as a surprise to hear. Unfortunately, there’s a lot of truth to it.] I hate to say it. And maybe that’s un-punk rock of me to say, but this is what it is…I’ve seen it. I see it everyday. It’s kind of gross – and not to steal a term from Bad Religion but it really is – infected.

Z: Less Than Jake has definitely been a prestigious forerunner for the ska punk community given their lasting accomplishments since ’92. What would you consider to be the band’s most effective ideas for getting you guys to where you are now in your larger musical careers? And do you still use the same ideas to maintain your successful status?

JR: Change with the times…without changing. Stay the course. It’s worked thus far. There are certain things that you can change…I’m not gunna make a new boat…we can change who’s in the boat or who’s driving the boat, but we’re not building a new boat. This boat is great. I love this boat. We all love this boat. There’s so many bands you see that just try to keep building new boats and they end up sinking after a few years.

We are who we are. We’re not gunna jam ourselves in tight jeans…with comb-overs. MTV’s not gunna play us…the radio’s not gunna play us. Okay! So we are who we are. People like are band or people don’t.

Z: And they respect that. Has Less Than Jake, in any way, changed their methods of networking to adapt to the change of how people receive information?

JR: Oh, we have to keep up with technology. Yeah, it’s so immediate now with things like Twitter. It’s our fondness of the immediate rumor-mill. A perfect example would be when our shows in Portland and Seattle got canceled and we were able to post on Twitter to let kids know about the relocation of the show and then the show went on. So it was awesome. Shows back in the day were just canceled because there wasn’t much you could do except put a sign on the door [hah]. Networking these days affords you many…many more opportunities. And it freaks me out cause if this networking was around fifteen years ago…good god…what a different place my band would be in. We’re old men playing in a young man’s sport.

Z: Do you think this change enabled bands to become more creative with the way they market themselves or produce music?

JR: Honestly, no, it’s just made it easier. And it just makes being good looking a benefit – a huge benefit. Cause damn, man [hah]…if you’re a bunch of ugly dudes, people…girls won’t even give you a shot. And even guys want to see the guys/girls in bands be attractive these days. But it kinda reminds me about how when you’re a kid and you get a present and it’s wrapped in newpaper…you’re not as stoked.

Z: I hear ya. Do you think this change has been a positive or a negative impact on the musical community?

JR: Meh. I’m indifferent. I think that a lot of the charm of music is gone now. You don’t hear about people sleeping in front of record stores to buy tickets or their new favorite record to come out. No one is excited for records to come out anymore. Music is vast, but no longer as sacred as it used to be it seems.

Z: Yeah, my huge gripe is that the music environment isn’t intimate. There’s no intimacy in our era of immediate gratification.

JR: Yeah, and then there is stealing. If you download music without paying for it, it is stealing. I do it. We all do it. And I posted about it the other day and kids were trying to justify their stealing by saying, “Well, I don’t have money. I didn’t mean to do…” If you can just admit it then you can move on. It’s wrong.

Z: Agreed. On a lighter note, I was told Cage wasn’t allowed to play tonight because of the whole contract business that HOB has with Disney which states that Disney is allowed to read over the lyrics of the bands playing and if they think their lyrics are too vulgar then they don’t let that band play. I know when Shai Hulud was on tour with New Found Glory they were not allowed to play HOB (Orlando) either for this reason. What are your thoughts on Disney’s power to kick off a band like that?

JR: Well, I think it’s an abortion to the First Amendment. I don’t agree with it at all. I think it’s ironic because Shia Labeouf is doing a movie based on the life of Cage and he [Shia] got his break through Disney…there’s a possibility that the movie about Cage might get put out through Disney. But like I said, to me, either it all works or none of it works.

We’re gunna play Cage’s album in between the set up time of The Swellers and us. So take that, Disney!

Z: Let’s loop-swoop and tie the knot by talking about your newest album, “GNV FLA.” From personal experience, I know how different the writing process can be from album to album. Some times the juices flow and sometimes there’s just that writer’s block for bands to find new avenues to create new music. In a recent interview about GNV FLA, you mention the concept behind the album basically stating that, “We should do what we’ve always done, and do what we do best.” Did this help smooth out any indecisive bumps of the writing process?

JR: [hah] No. The creation aspect is never easy. If it was easy…then everyone would do it. We’d be like “Puhh Ftttt, hey we’re already done!” [hah] Of course it’s not that easy, but it definitely helped us focus on what needed to get done. The direction was just to write some songs. We didn’t want to do anything that was too rock based. We just wanted to do what we do best which is ska and punk rock. The new record is a reactionary record. The record prior to that was more pop based and the fans didn’t like that…so we said alright we’ll figure something out.

Z: What were some other influences for the title and music of the album?

JR: The title was a fight up until the very end. We didn’t know what we were going to name it up until the last day. It’s kind of a statement of stability for us saying that we started here and we’re strong enough to have kept things together in this town. It’s what it is. The next portion of career…the next half of our career will stem from here.

Z: Any last comments or promotions for the album that didn’t get touched on? Any comments on what the fans can flirt with about any upcoming plans and material?

JR: Nah…I don’t have any secret information about music. You guys will hear about it when it happens though.

Z: Well, it’s been a pleasure getting your insight on Less Than Jake and the music industry. Take care. Have fun out there.

JR: Thanks. I appreciate that you actually did research and put work into your questions. It made me want to work and give you good, solid answers. Someone once told me that time is one of our most valuable things, you can’t get time back like you can with money or possessions and if someone puts together a quality interview then I don’t mind giving them my time. So thank you.

For more on Less Than Jake:

This interview was conducted by Zach Frmmel, a senior at UCF majoring in English Literature with a minor in Humanities. He plays in an indie band, GreatFriendofMine, and you can check out their music on Bandcamp here.

Less Than Jake Talks Labels, Tours and Festivals

Posted on 16 December 2009 by zach

Less Than Jake House of Blues Orlando InterviewThe night of Less Than Jake’s show, at House of Blues in Orlando, the ska-punk community was thriving, in and around the show, from all sorts of sights such as: checkered garb (suspenders, customized patchwork), Op Ivy and Link 80 shirts, to kids that just wanted to skank the night away. Before the show I sat down, in a classy, “grassy” aroma, tour bus outside of House of Blues, with the saxophone player from Less Than Jake, Peter “JR” Wasilewski, to flirt with their musical journey in the last couple years and to get his perspective on the music industry and how Less Than Jake fits in to the big picture. And this was one picture we captured.

Zach: So, you’re on tour with Cage and The Swellers…how’s that going?

JR: Well, Cage isn’t playing the show tonight…

Z: Yeah, I know. I have a question about that later. [hah.]

JR: Well, it’s been good, a lot of fun. Both acts are really good at what they do. It’s been cool to be on tour with both bands…acts. Cage isn’t really a band, he’s a DJ, but it’s cool.

Z: Yeah, from your tour updates online it seems like you’ve been keeping things interesting. I went to FEST8 this year and it was awesome – just like the first time I went for FEST6 – where I saw you guys play at The Venue. I know you guys played the FEST again this year…how was your FEST experience?

JR: It was different than the last couple years, I suppose. I make the Fest work for me. You know what I mean…a lot of people get worked by The Fest where they go and get drunk all four days…and don’t shower [hah]. I went and I saw the bands that I wanted to see and stayed away from when I didn’t need to be there. So the bands that I wanted to see I got to see…you know Dillinger Four, Dead to Me, I watched Rehatcher…who the heck played…I saw Sam I Am. That was cool. I showed up when I knew the bands that I wanted to see were playing. I saw the Flatliners play, Cheap Girls and a bunch of others. The one thing I guess we have over other people was that since it was our hometown… if I really wanted to see a band I knew each dude that owned the club and so I could just walk in.

Z: [hah] Yeah, must be nice.

And so my follow up question, did you notice any changes about FEST this year compared to recent years…?

JR: Yeah, I mean, it’s gotten bigger.

Z: Yeah, especially the line issue. There were some shows you couldn’t get into even if you waited an hour beforehand to get in. I know I went to wait in line, an hour beforehand, to see Lemuria and still didn’t even get close to getting into Common Grounds where they were playing.

JR: But if it became bigger than what it is right now, than I think Tony would have to do something different…I mean you have hundreds of bands and to do something better would mean they would have to do a Warped Tour…outside…day-type thing. That’s totally not what it is suppose to be.

Z: Fair enough. Since you guys are based out of Gainesville, where The FEST is held, do you notice any difference, over the years, in Gainesville’s music community?

JR: The music community is always pretty vibrant. It’s because it’s a college town. Because it’s a constant influx of kids and different creations, and everyone wants to be in a band. It’s cool, because if you’re in a band and you go there to play a show…if you play punk rock…then you’re guaranteed 70-100 kids because it’s a live music town. People go out to shows. There are a lot of towns you go to where people go out to shows, but Gainesville doesn’t get any better or any worse. It’s more of a constant.

Z: Yeah, we need more lively towns like that in Florida!

On a similar note, a lot of musical talent has been spawned and supported through the Gainesville music community with help from labels such as No Idea and Fueled by Ramen – both of which Less Than Jake has represented. What are your thoughts on the relationship with a band and their label? Is intimacy between them productive?

JR: What is sold to you is that it’s a symbiotic relationship where one can’t exist without the other. I firmly believe that is a true statement if you’re discussing it from the label’s perspective…because a label cannot survive with talent. Talent, on the other hand, can survive without a label.

The way that it should be is that artists should create their art and then the people who run the label should figure out how to market that art to the target demographic. On paper, in theory, in a book, that’s how it should be. And that’s probably what they will teach you in a music business class or a book you check out. In reality, what it is, is there are thousands of bands and there’s only… out of the thousand different bands… probably four or five bands that become successful. It used to be where labels would suggest “Oh you should sound more like this, or you should do more like this.” But now bands don’t even care they’re just like this what is marketable, this is what will make money.

[A second interviewer comes in: and doesn’t shut the tour bus door]

[JR goes to shut it and says on his way back…”Musta grown up in a barn!”]

But no, when I started playing music I played music to play music, and I played music to get free beer and maybe chicks. Now, when I listen to music, I would listen to the record and think, “Wow, this record sounds really good.” And I wouldn’t necessarily take note of who produced it. I would just listen to the music on the record. Nowadays, kids start bands to be famous…if you start a band just to do that then you might as well go to medical school and become a doctor because even if you’re a failed doctor then at least you’re still a doctor.

Z: That’s heavy stuff. I agree with you about just listening to the music. Music should be appreciated based on its content, not simply based on who produced it.

So then how would you describe your relationship to the label compared to all of this information?

JR: Our relationship with the label was how we tried to direct it, but ultimately the label is still bigger than the artist. Do you know what I mean…when I say the label needs the artist to survive…that’s true, but for every one there’s a thousand other [artists] that would take that one’s spot. They’d kill to have that spot. That’s how I perceive what it [label relationship] is and what it’s going to be. Honestly, I don’t think labels are going to be significant in the future. There’s a lot of resistance against the music industry these days where people just want to produce music their own way and so people are figuring out ways to do that. The information and methods of marketing, that are circulating these days, are reinventing a lot of new ways for people to think about music.

JR had a lot of insight on his experience with music and the marketing with labels. In the second half of the interview you can read about JR’s comments on working with Sire, compared to working on LTJ’s new label Sleep on It. Also, I asked JR what he thought of Cage not being allowed by Disney to play the show due to his music’s controversial reputation…and that was an interesting discussion as well!

This post was written by Zach Frmmel, a senior at UCF majoring in English Literature with a minor in Humanities. He plays in an indie band, GreatFriendofMine, and you can check out their music on Bandcamp here.